At the very least, the big laptop manufacturers making Linux handhelds means just from a cost cutting and resource perspective, there’s a good chance laptop and desktop hardware support improves even further just because they reuse parts across devices.
Hell, NVIDIA is probably watching this and wishing they’d supported Linux better in the past because now they have some catching up to do.
there’s a good chance laptop and desktop hardware support improves even further just because they reuse parts across devices.
100% agree.
This is how Linux has caught-up-ish with respect to hardware in the first place. The BSOD from all the crappy drivers in Windows forced MSFT to create WHQL. Then MSFT charged for certification. Then OEMs started licensing IP that already had the certification instead of writing their own drivers for less well know IP. Someone writes a Linux driver for a certain IP and now a ton of systems are further supported.
These companies are definitely going to reuse IP across all their devices. Companies selling IP will want to sell their IP in as many markets as possible. They are going to write the Linux driver and say, “put this in your handheld.”
They are going to write the Linux driver and say, “put this in your handheld.”
That would be terrible. They shouldn’t be giving their customers a driver, they should be sending their driver to mainline and telling their customers “Use any version of Linux after 6.<whenever their driver was committed>”.
I should clarify. I’m speaking from the perspective of the IP owner who writes the driver and manufacturer who puts together all the components. And I’m sure the drivers would get mainlined. That’s what Intel does now. They inbox their Windows driver with MSFT and mainline their Linux driver with the Kernel.
I’m speaking from the perspective of the IP owner who writes the driver and manufacturer who puts together all the components.
As am I.
And I’m sure the drivers would get mainlined.
That’s not the norm.
Intel
Intel is huge and employs shit loads of Linux developers. Most vendors, who will be much smaller, don’t. For example, Realtek, who stick a crappily written driver in a tarball on their download page and call it a day. Or any of the hundreds of silicon vendors (such as NXP, Nvidia, Rockchip, Allwinner, Realtek again, Qualcomm, etc., etc.) with "BSP"s who give their customers a 500GB package containing, among lots of proprietary userland shit, some butchered horror show based on Linux 3.3 with no git history.
I can’t imagine why you would expect drivers to be mainlined by a vendor.
I can’t imagine why you would expect drivers to be mainlined by a vendor.
Because I was a Windows kernel developer for Intel. It was standard practice for us to give our reference drivers to the OEMs to deploy with their devices, while we worked with Microsoft to inbox the reference drivers. This was part of the value of the Intel IP.
That’s not the norm.
It is the Norm for PCs. And we are talking about, “Laptop manufacturers making handhelds, leading to cost cutting from a resource perspective.”
We aren’t talking about ARM vendors making 1 off devices.
LOL your experience in Windows driver land is in no way transferrable to Linux driver land.
My experience at Intel with drivers is directly transferable. Intel sells the whole product. That’s why an OEM would choose Intel IP. It’s a core part of the sales strategy at Intel, not Just PC, Servers too (even Linux servers). Especially to the smaller OEMs who don’t have huge engineering teams. Name a server technology or Server component that didn’t get mainlined or inbox’d of Intel’s? Again, core to the sales strategy.
You mean for PCs running Windows.
Yes.
Which is not what we’re talking about.
Yes we are, “At the very least, the big laptop manufacturers”. Lenovo, Asus, and MSI are PC OEMs that make Windows PCs. Laptops, Desktop, Workstations, and now Handheld PCs. Right now PC is dominated by Windows. If the SteamOS version of the Lenovo handhelds are a clear winner, other Windows PC OEMs will follow. They, the big laptop manufacturers, will bring their expectations with them. Just as AMD mainlined into Linux the drivers they did for their components in the Steam Deck, Intel will too. And that brings us back to, “the big laptop manufacturers making Linux handhelds means just from a cost cutting and resource perspective, there’s a good chance laptop and desktop hardware support improves even further just because they reuse parts across devices.” If, the big laptop manufacturers, want the SteamOS name and branding, they will have to mainline and that means selecting IP that has or will have mainline drivers. Valve will not want to go the Google route and maintain a separate Linux Kernel.
At the very least, the big laptop manufacturers making Linux handhelds means just from a cost cutting and resource perspective, there’s a good chance laptop and desktop hardware support improves even further just because they reuse parts across devices.
Hell, NVIDIA is probably watching this and wishing they’d supported Linux better in the past because now they have some catching up to do.
100% agree.
This is how Linux has caught-up-ish with respect to hardware in the first place. The BSOD from all the crappy drivers in Windows forced MSFT to create WHQL. Then MSFT charged for certification. Then OEMs started licensing IP that already had the certification instead of writing their own drivers for less well know IP. Someone writes a Linux driver for a certain IP and now a ton of systems are further supported.
These companies are definitely going to reuse IP across all their devices. Companies selling IP will want to sell their IP in as many markets as possible. They are going to write the Linux driver and say, “put this in your handheld.”
That would be terrible. They shouldn’t be giving their customers a driver, they should be sending their driver to mainline and telling their customers “Use any version of Linux after 6.<whenever their driver was committed>”.
I should clarify. I’m speaking from the perspective of the IP owner who writes the driver and manufacturer who puts together all the components. And I’m sure the drivers would get mainlined. That’s what Intel does now. They inbox their Windows driver with MSFT and mainline their Linux driver with the Kernel.
As am I.
That’s not the norm.
Intel is huge and employs shit loads of Linux developers. Most vendors, who will be much smaller, don’t. For example, Realtek, who stick a crappily written driver in a tarball on their download page and call it a day. Or any of the hundreds of silicon vendors (such as NXP, Nvidia, Rockchip, Allwinner, Realtek again, Qualcomm, etc., etc.) with "BSP"s who give their customers a 500GB package containing, among lots of proprietary userland shit, some butchered horror show based on Linux 3.3 with no git history.
I can’t imagine why you would expect drivers to be mainlined by a vendor.
Because I was a Windows kernel developer for Intel. It was standard practice for us to give our reference drivers to the OEMs to deploy with their devices, while we worked with Microsoft to inbox the reference drivers. This was part of the value of the Intel IP.
It is the Norm for PCs. And we are talking about, “Laptop manufacturers making handhelds, leading to cost cutting from a resource perspective.” We aren’t talking about ARM vendors making 1 off devices.
LOL your experience in Windows driver land is in no way transferrable to Linux driver land.
You mean for PCs running Windows. Which is not what we’re talking about.
My experience at Intel with drivers is directly transferable. Intel sells the whole product. That’s why an OEM would choose Intel IP. It’s a core part of the sales strategy at Intel, not Just PC, Servers too (even Linux servers). Especially to the smaller OEMs who don’t have huge engineering teams. Name a server technology or Server component that didn’t get mainlined or inbox’d of Intel’s? Again, core to the sales strategy.
Yes.
Yes we are, “At the very least, the big laptop manufacturers”. Lenovo, Asus, and MSI are PC OEMs that make Windows PCs. Laptops, Desktop, Workstations, and now Handheld PCs. Right now PC is dominated by Windows. If the SteamOS version of the Lenovo handhelds are a clear winner, other Windows PC OEMs will follow. They, the big laptop manufacturers, will bring their expectations with them. Just as AMD mainlined into Linux the drivers they did for their components in the Steam Deck, Intel will too. And that brings us back to, “the big laptop manufacturers making Linux handhelds means just from a cost cutting and resource perspective, there’s a good chance laptop and desktop hardware support improves even further just because they reuse parts across devices.” If, the big laptop manufacturers, want the SteamOS name and branding, they will have to mainline and that means selecting IP that has or will have mainline drivers. Valve will not want to go the Google route and maintain a separate Linux Kernel.
Windows PC manufacturers, not 1 off ARM vendors.
LOL
The industry is more than just Intel and Intel are an outlier with respect to Linux kernel development.
They will not.
They already do:
https://gitlab.com/evlaV/linux-integration
https://gitlab.com/evlaV/linux-integration/activity
No offence mate but you’re talking bollocks. You clearly don’t know anything about Linux development.