• @[email protected]
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    102 years ago

    I agree with everything but voting. Not because we ever have great options, but because sometimes there are terrifyingly bad ones, and while option A might not be at all good, option B is so much worse.

    That’s why it’s called “the lesser of two evils.”

    • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
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      2 years ago

      The problem is that they aren’t two evils, they’re two parts of the same evil machine whose functions are mutually dependent and mutally reinforcing

      “The United States is also a one-party state, but in typical American extravagance, they have two of them.” -Julius Nyerere, first president of Tanzania

      • @[email protected]
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        32 years ago

        You don’t seem to know what “lesser of two evils” means.

        It doesn’t mean “that guy’s bad, so the less evil guy is good, actually, and totally deserves our support!”

        It means “no matter which one of these assholes wins, I’m fucked, but if I’m lucky the one guy will use lube.”

        I can’t do a damn thing about the two party system. That ship sailed before I was born, and nothing I do as an individual can change it. In fact, I can’t see a solution short of possibly violent revolution. If that happens before I’m to old and feeble to help, great. Other wise, I’m fucked no matter who I pick, so I’m sure as shit going to pick the one who just wants to fuck me and not fuck me plus kill my trans neighbor.

        I’m sick and tired of being called stupid, gullible, or uninformed just because I can actually see how completely fucked we are. Your shit is great for people who still have hope. My shit is just trying to survive without the Gestapo coming for my neighbors.

        So come get me for the revolution. In the meantime, stop calling me stupid for being depressed and practical.

        Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to copy and paste this in reply to some other lemming that thinks I’m a gullible moron instead.

        • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]
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          122 years ago

          You don’t seem to know what “lesser of two evils” means.

          Yes, they do, they were trying to explain to you that it’s a scam and only serves to move the nation to the right. Everybody understands “lesser of two evils” we’re all browbeaten with it our entire lives.

          • @[email protected]
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            2 years ago

            Edit: Sorry, wrong starting sentence. I meant to say:

            Clearly not browbeaten enough.

            Lesser of two evils means we’re fucked either way, but one way slightly less. It means there are not good choices, just less bad ones. If you sat through the Trump presidency and still think there’s no difference, then I don’t know what the fuck to tell you. If you can’t look at how fucked trans people are in Florida and other red states right now and still say there’s no difference, then go fuck yourself.

            They’re both shit, but one of wants to fucking murder my friends. There’s a fucking difference. And if I sound mad, it’s because people saying shit like this vote dumbass third parties that can’t possibly win, or sit out an election because of protests. People are fucking dead because of this dumbass “there’s no difference” bullshit.

            You wanna tear down the system and stat over? Fine, great, get going. I’ll even help if it looks like you might have a prayer. But right now, there is no hope. There’s just mitigation of harm. Your idealism gets people killed.

            • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]
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              42 years ago

              It’s amazing that despite knowing everybody, everywhere, already knows what “lesser of two evils” means, you still resort to just belaboring the point pedantically to repeat what everybody already knows. I’m sure you think you’re very clever, but your tactics suggest you find basic knowledge to be esoteric and worth repeating over and over.

              • @[email protected]
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                02 years ago

                I tend to repeat myself whenit appears that my audience isn’t listening. You’re the third person who seemed to think that “lesser of two evils” meant “if one guy’s bad, the other guys good.” People in this thread keep acting like I’m happy with the Democratic party or something.

                So, since it seemed like you didn’t understand what I’d said, I repeated myself. I’m pedantic for the same reason: you’re either ignoring what I’m saying or don’t understand it. Either way, I apparently have to spell it out.

                Nice use of the word “esoteric”. Did you find that in the word a day calendar this morning? It doesn’t really apply here, though, because nothing I’ve said is esoteric. It’s not arcane, obscure, or in any way difficult to understand. And I don’t think it is.

                I just think you’re either being intentionally obtuse to rile me up, or you really don’t get what I’m saying.

                It’s all good, though, dude. I’m tired. I’m just so fucking tired. I’ve been watching this shit unfold for close to five decades, sometimes while getting shot at, and I’m tired.

                I’m mad, but I fucking give up. My position - despair - isn’t worth fighting for and I don’t know why I briefly thought it was. I fucking surrender.

                Let me know how that revolution you guys are never going to have goes.

                • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]
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                  2 years ago

                  I tend to repeat myself whenit appears that my audience isn’t listening. You’re the third person who seemed to think that “lesser of two evils” meant “if one guy’s bad, the other guys good.” People in this thread keep acting like I’m happy with the Democratic party or something.

                  The irony here is you’re the one who seems to not be reading or comprehending us. Nobody’s saying you think one guy’s good, we’re saying voting for a marginally slower fascist is a stupid thing to give a shit about because it doesn’t even produce results.

                  So, since it seemed like you didn’t understand what I’d said, I repeated myself. I’m pedantic for the same reason: you’re either ignoring what I’m saying or don’t understand it. Either way, I apparently have to spell it out.

                  What you are saying is said by millions of people, you’re neither clever nor cutting new ground here. We all understand it, and we think it’s wrong. You might be exposing your intellectual shortcomings here that you can’t figure that out.

                  Nice use of the word “esoteric”. Did you find that in the word a day calendar this morning? It doesn’t really apply here, though, because nothing I’ve said is esoteric. It’s not arcane, obscure, or in any way difficult to understand. And I don’t think it is.

                  Now I’m really starting to think you’re a dumb guy deeply invested in pretending to be smart. Esoteric isn’t an unusual, special word - read a fuckin book.

                  I just think you’re either being intentionally obtuse to rile me up, or you really don’t get what I’m saying.

                  I disagree with you. Fundamentally. Grapple with the disagreement instead of trying to fake being high-minded or just repeating shit children understand.

                  Let me know how that revolution you guys are never going to have goes.

                  Nobody’s going to update a reactionary who can’t even allow themselves to directly consider arguments against their atrophied, ignorant worldview.

                  • @[email protected]
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                    12 years ago

                    Look, I’m really tired here. And I’m formally apologizing. I have so radically failed at making my point that you think I’m a reactionary. I’m not. I’m utterly convinced that the whole world is completely fucked, and the absolute best we can do is try to tread water as long as we can before drowning. Reacting? To what? To what end? The system’s irrevocably broken, I can’t do anything about it, so what’s the point?

                    And I’m not particularly smart. I mean, I know some stuff, and I’ve been through a lot. But smart? Meh. When I was in the Army, I drove a tank for a living. Does that sound like the career choice of a smart man?

                    I’m just so fucking tired. Please tell me how anything you’re doing will help. No sarcasm, I want to know. How do you move forward?

                    I’ll quit shouting. I just don’t have the spoons.

            • @[email protected]
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              -12 years ago

              Lesser of two evils means we’re fucked either way, but one way slightly less

              So you are just okay with these incredibly low standards. Sorry, but I’m not and we could be doing things differently instead of this “lesser of two evils” garbage.

                • @[email protected]
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                  12 years ago

                  There are definitely ways to fix it but you keep posting about how you don’t agree with it, and you think you should just settle for the lesser of two evils… if you’re so against it, why even vote?

                  why tell others to vote? Fear mongering that the guy you’re afraid of is gonna win if you don’t vote cause uh oh then only evil people are left voting??

                  the more we don’t participate in this bullshit, the quicker we can get rid of it. Unfortunately, people like you just settle for what you have. Instead of pushing for something better. By just settling for this shit, you hold everyone else back from real change.

    • barrbaric [he/him]
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      102 years ago

      Under the policies of the greater evil, billions will die due to climate change because corporate profits are more important than human lives to them. Under the policies of the lesser evil, billions will die due to climate change because corporate profits are more important than human lives to them.

      It makes no difference, both parties should be opposed and true change can only come through revolution and the abolition of the capitalist class.

      • @[email protected]
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        02 years ago

        I agree with everything but the “it makes no difference” part. Thinking it makes no difference is a privilege a whole shit ton of people can’t afford.

        They’re both horrible. Capitalism sucks. But to say there’s no difference? That’s just delusional. You’re missing the trees for the forest.

        Until that “true change” you’re talking about happens, I’m not willing to sit by and let women, immigrants, minorities, and LGBTQIA+ people get fucked over even worse than I am. And fuck you if you are.

        • barrbaric [he/him]
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          82 years ago

          Roe V Wade was repealed under Biden. The concentration camps at the border are still open. In response to the mass murder of black people by cops, Biden gave more money to the cops. The extermination of trans people is continuing apace at the state level and the dems are doing nothing to stop it. This is all to say nothing about foreign policy, where the US is still complicit with killing thousands if not millions since 2020 through sanctions and facilitating genocide in Yemen. Or lifting all COVID restrictions despite the massive danger still posed.

          There is a rhetorical difference between the two parties, but there isn’t much evidence of a material difference.

          • @[email protected]
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            12 years ago

            Okay.

            What word did I say that made you think I’m happy with the Democrats? That I actually support them rather than hate them just marginally less than the fascists in the other party?

            It’s all fucked. And the Supreme Court was stacked by the last administration, so you’re arguing against yourself buddy.

            • barrbaric [he/him]
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              52 years ago

              What word did I say that made you think I’m happy with the Democrats?

              I never said you were. I was addressing the claim that they’re a lesser evil, which I’m not convinced by.

              It’s all fucked.

              Agreed!

              And the Supreme Court was stacked by the last administration

              Largely irrelevant. Biden could stack the court, or just tell them to fuck off since they have no real power, or codified Roe into law when the dems controlled congress. There are excuses for why they couldn’t do any of those things, sure (not least of which that Biden opposes abortion rights himself because he’s a fucking monster). But all of them show that they’re fundamentally unserious in fighting back against the fascists. I’m not going to vote for von Hindenburg 2.

        • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]
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          42 years ago

          Until that “true change” you’re talking about happens, I’m not willing to sit by and let women, immigrants, minorities, and LGBTQIA+ people get fucked over even worse than I am. And fuck you if you are.

          Did you vote for Biden? So you voted and still got roe v wade overturned. You voted and Biden has continued the staggering majority of Trump’s inhumane border policies. You voted, and we’re one well-timed court case away from the SC overturning gay marriage. Congratulations, the better guy won and all the same shit happened.

          • @[email protected]
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            12 years ago

            you voted and still got roe v wade overturned.

            Roe v Wade got overturned by a Supreme Court that was stacked by the Republicans during the previous administration you absolute waste. You’re literally arguing against your own point.

            And again: what fucking part of any fucking word I’ve typed makes you think I’m happy with the Biden administration.

            Oh, wait! You’re not actually reading anything I’m saying! You’re just shifting goalposts and regurgitating talking points! Holy fuck, it’s like talking to a communist version of my mother.

            Don’t talk to me unless you actually know something. Take your useless idealism elsewhere.

            • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]
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              42 years ago

              Roe v Wade got overturned by a Supreme Court that was stacked by the Republicans during the previous administration you absolute waste. You’re literally arguing against your own point.

              And what is your vote doing to stop that? Anything at all?

              Oh, wait! You’re not actually reading anything I’m saying! You’re just shifting goalposts and regurgitating talking points! Holy fuck, it’s like talking to a communist version of my mother.

              I’m reading what you’re saying, it’s just so dumb and trite it might as well be embroidered on a tea cozy

              • @[email protected]
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                12 years ago

                Lmao I can’t wait until you and your comrades try to start the revolution, shit is going to be hilarious 🤣

                Also why tf does everyone on hexbear put their pronouns in their username on a site that emphasizes anonymous interactions. No one cares about what you like to be called.

              • @[email protected]
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                12 years ago

                I’m reading what you’re saying, it’s just so dumb and trite it might as well be embroidered on a tea cozy

                The fact that I feel the same way about you probably indicates that this is a pointless waste of time on all sides.

                And what is your vote doing to stop that? Anything at all?

                In the Biden election? Nothing. Roe was done for as soon as Trump won. It was on life support, but people refusing to vote for the lesser of two evils pulled the plug.

                I’m tired dude. I’m just so fucking tired.

                Do what you want. You’re not gonna accomplish any more than I am so I’m not sure why I cared enough to get worked up. We’re all fucked no matter what. Do your little protest vote or whatever the fuck. I’m sure it’s gonna do so fucking much.

                • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]
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                  2 years ago

                  Roe was done for as soon as Trump won.

                  Why did Trump win? Did it have anything to do with the Clinton campaign choosing a pied pipe strategy where they boosted everything Trump did in the primary and ignored all the less fascist candidates? Do you suppose that continuing to use that tactic is good? The Democrats continue to use their donations to amplify the furthest right candidates in races, and they do not have anywhere near a 100% success rate in defeating those fascists they intentionally amplify. To make the point, money given to the DNC is, in some small proportion, money given to the RNC because the DNC would prefer to amplify worst case scenarios to improve their chances instead of offering GOOD CANDIDATES to entice voters. Supporting that is supporting the rightward slide of everything.

                  It was on life support, but people refusing to vote for the lesser of two evils pulled the plug.

                  That’s one way to see it - the same way the DNC paid pundits and managers see it, since it validates them. Another way to see it is, the Democrats steadfastly refuse to offer a better alternative.

                  Do your little protest vote or whatever the fuck. I’m sure it’s gonna do so fucking much.

                  You know that voting for Biden resulted in a worse world, and here you are sneering at anyone who thinks that was a waste.

                  edit: let’s address Obama, too - he had a fucking SC appointment, and instead of doing anything serious to seat a good candidate, he fucking punted on the assumption - the incredibly stupid assumption - that Clinton would win. Obama is why Roe is gone. So your vote for Obama was also a vote for letting Republicans pick a SC candidate. Can’t you connect the dots? It doesn’t matter how hard you vote for Democrats. They will always let the Republicans win, because they’re both paid by the same masters.

                  You’re not gonna accomplish any more than I am so I’m not sure why I cared enough to get worked up

                  one more edit: the distinction is you keep repeating shit everybody knows, whereas I (and other leftists) are trying to explain you to a new concept. It’s clear you’re not listening, but I’ll keep trying until you give up.

                  • @[email protected]
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                    12 years ago

                    the distinction is you keep repeating shit everybody knows, whereas I (and other leftists) are trying to explain you to a new concept

                    I keep repeating shit because you keep not hearing me. You still think I’m trying to defend the Democratic party. You still think I find the Biden administration defendable. If you understand “lesser of two evils” so well, why do you think I’m trying to defend a party I keep calling evil?

                    So I’ll tell you what, I’ll deal with the “new concept” part of what you said when you explain that to me. Once I understand why you think I’m defending a position that I haven’t once defended, I might be able to move on.

    • anon
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      62 years ago

      I disagree. You seem to be susceptible to identity politics even though it is quite clear that this “lesser of two evils” is actually hoodwinking you into agreeing with corporatism in the name of empty, symbolic inclusivity that intentionally stops short at extending that woke inclusivity to the poor.

      • @[email protected]
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        42 years ago

        You don’t seem to know what “lesser of two evils” means.

        It doesn’t mean “that guy’s bad, so the less evil guy is good, actually, and totally deserves our support!”

        It means “no matter which one of these assholes wins, I’m fucked, but if I’m lucky the one guy will use lube.”

        I can’t do a damn thing about the two party system. That ship sailed before I was born, and nothing I do as an individual can change it. In fact, I can’t see a solution short of possibly violent revolution. If that happens before I’m to old and feeble to help, great. Other wise, I’m fucked no matter who I pick, so I’m sure as shit going to pick the one who just wants to fuck me and not fuck me plus kill my trans neighbor.

        I’m sick and tired of being called stupid, gullible, or uninformed just because I can actually see how completely fucked we are. Your shit is great for people who still have hope. My shit is just trying to survive without the Gestapo coming for my neighbors.

        So come get me for the revolution. In the meantime, stop calling me stupid for being depressed and practical.

        Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to copy and paste this in reply to some other lemming that thinks I’m a gullible moron instead.

        • Phoenixz
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          32 years ago

          The two Party system will only go of you get rid of the “winner takes all” system.

        • anon
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          22 years ago

          establishment, sheepdog neoliberals are out in force on here.

          • @[email protected]
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            22 years ago

            Ugh. I’m not pro establishment. People who are pro establishment think it works. People who are pro establishment have hope

            Where the fuck did you get that out of what I wrote? Do I sound hopeful? Or like I think the system in any way works?

            Or is that just your canned response when someone disagrees with you and you can’t think of a decent comeback?

            Is that what you kids call a “cope”? It sounds like a “cope”. My generation just calls it “What the fuck are you even talking about?”

              • @[email protected]
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                12 years ago

                How. How am I doing that? I’m too tires to fight you, I’m just looking for information at this point.

                • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]
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                  12 years ago

                  Any legitimate vote is defacto consent for the system. The biggest stand you can take in a voting booth is spoiling your ballot with obscenities. It is abundantly clear that “harm minimization” doesnt work. Voting for a lesser of 2 evils is still voting for evil.

        • @[email protected]
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          12 years ago

          no matter which one of these assholes wins, I’m fucked, but if I’m lucky the one guy will use lube

          this is some scary logic if you think about it. Imagine you are a person, who doesn’t want to get fucked. Two guys are about to fuck you, even though you don’t want it, and you get the option to choose which guys fucks you even though you don’t want to get fucked?

          oh but the one guy is gonna use lube. To fuck you. The person who doesn’t want to be fucked.

          that’s insane.